What You Need to Know About ASTM’s NEW EP Certification Program

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I am Scott Davis, Senior Vice President, Industry Engagement for ERIS, and I am the host for today’s webinar.

What you need to know about ASTM’s new EP certification program. As you know, ASTM International is in the final stages of developing an environmental professional certification program in anticipates rolling it out sometime in 2024.

Today we are fortunate to have with us Tim Haley and Paul Zovic. Tim is the ASTM committee E50 chair for environmental assessment risk management and corrective action. He is a partner at Latitude Legal, which is based in Indianapolis.

Tim has represented Fortune 500 companies nonprofits and privately held businesses on complex environmental litigation transactions and compliance matters.

Paul is an ASTM approved instructor and member of the E50 committee actively involved in developing the EP certification exam.

Paul has over 40 years experience as an environmental management professional, specializing in compliance, auditing. Training staff, organizational development, and litigation support for public and private sector.

Great. Thanks, Scott. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

We’re gonna go through, some background of what, ASTM is doing with respect to the environmental professional certification.

I get to do the background section, to kind of explain how we got, whether HTM is and how we got to where we are.

So I’ll dive in here is. What is ASTM committee? ASTM is a standards organization, internationally, recognize we have over.

I forget the exact number, something like a hundred 40 different technical committees. These committees range from.

All sorts of consumer products. To you know the committee on E50 which has a host of environmental standards.

Committee E50 is much more than the 1527 and 2247 phase one side assessment standards.

Although arguably those are 2 of our more famous ones. We actually have 7 different. Technical subcommittees.

Sub. One is on tanks. The second one is real estate assessment and management. Third one is beneficial. Use.

Fourth one is corrective action. Fifth one is environmental risk management. Our sixth one is climate and community and our seventh one is biological effects and environment.

There’s a host of different kinds of standards that ASTM works on, ranging from test methods that one might use in the lab.

2 guides that can help. On commercial real estate, for example. So.

That is committee E50.

The reason that ASTM got involved with 1527 specifically. I mean, 1527 phase one environmental side assessment standard has its roots in the late eighties.

And I think the first 1527 came out in 1989 or 1990. Well before The circle was amended to include protections for various folks from the circle regime.

So there are there’s a long history at STM on this particular set of issues in 2,004, the AI rule came around.

Most of you guys are familiar with that. This is the rule that defines good and customary practice for diligence.

We’re actually all appropriate inquiries. Which is the statutory phrase And, includes reference to ASTM, 1527.

So, the AI rule also includes the definition of environmental professional. Which includes a laundry list, the definitions, at 40 CFR part 3.

10, no, 3, 12.10. If you need to see it, there’s a laundry list of 4 or 5 or 6 different things that you have to qualify for to be an EP.

Most of these are pretty straightforward. You know, who are you a licensed? Geologists, for example, do you have a professional engineers professional geologist license?

Have you been certified by a federal government, state or tribe, etc? One of them is.

Remaining current in his or her field. Through participation in continuing education and other activities, which is What?

We’re getting into here in the EP certification. Why is ESTM pursuing certification for environmental professionals?

Our 1527 task group is required under ASTM rules to update our standard every 8 years. It’s a good rule. It keeps everything fresh.

It allows us to keep up with evolving trends in the marketplace. What we found specifically and since 2013, I got involved with this committee and I think in 2020 or 7, but since 2013 specifically.

A recurring theme. Is the variability of the types of phase one products that are out in the marketplace some are very good some are not so good.

In our latest iteration of the 1527 standard. There are many times when we’re in our committee and we’re looking at the language of the standard.

And we’re saying, okay. Do we say, how do, how do we present this particular term, whatever it is?

In a way that’s going to improve the products in the marketplace to eliminate ambiguity in the standard and improve the consistency in products.

And you know, the reality is. You know, if nobody reads the standards or if people don’t read the standards that closely like the product that they put together, it’s just not going to be that good.

So. We’ve been really emphasizing an ASTM, not just in 1527, but in all of our standards, different ways to get our standards out in front of the marketplace.

Education and outreach is what our committee calls it. And, some of that is, workshops, some of it’s, classes, some of its papers, whatever else is out there.

So putting together the certification program to. Address the issues from the represented us from the user community about the lack of consistency in the products.

Fit together well with our other mission of getting our standards out into the world. And, That’s that’s why we’re doing it.

So ASDM, Y ASDM ultimately. We have a large. Community of professionals not all of us are environmental professionals but we have users we have Ep’s and we have service providers everyone who has an interest in making This section of our economy work well.

And having a large group of people that are here with the common interest. Really, I think helps and makes a lot of sense in terms of.

Why ASTM is pursuing this activity. ASTM itself I think it’s good to know at the outset.

Asdn’s a nonprofit. It’s headquartered in West Koch and, Just north of Philadelphia and Pennsylvania.

The. People on E. 50 like me and like Paul and like everybody participating.

We’re volunteers so. We’re doing our best based on our professional experience.

To, to come in and, and make a good standard, make a good. In this case, certification.

Package there are also some things that are outside of our control which we’re getting to here, some of it in terms of.

What, what kind of process we have to go through in order to achieve the certification. What the timing is with the cost of all that is.

There’s a lot of stuff that’s addressed at ASTM with input from us, but ultimately we’re not the decision makers on.

Some of these things that I know, will care a lot about. So, With those disclaimers and that background.

I’m happy to turn this over to Paul.

Thanks. Thanks, Tim, for the introduction and thank you, Scott. For hosting and thanks to Eris for bringing us all together.

I was just kind of taking a look look like there’s a but. Just about 670 of us here, so certainly I think that bears witness to the interests that that there is both from the environmental professional standpoint and from the user community standpoint.

And what I’d like to do is just talk a little bit about how we how we’ve progressed, how the program is being developed and how from a practical sense how it might be rolled out.

First of all, I think it’s important to note that this is, you know, this is not a new, this isn’t just something we just started recently.

There’s been a small group of us, a growing group of us that have been working with the ASTM education specialists, growing group of us that have been working with the ASTM education specialists and credentialing specialists in in the education and credentialing for over 2 years.

And the process started. by identifying, I think we had about 3 dozen, experts from around the country, experts that represented public and private sector, users and producers.

Banks, government agencies and departments, educators, consultants. Developers and other interested parties. And the first step in the process was to kind of take a look at all the range of topics, if you will, regarding phase one and all appropriate inquiries in E1527. And identify where were the items of most of greatest interest of greatest concern of greatest importance.

What asked him staff did using a specialized credential examining software platform. Is is developed a robust a robust survey and through the survey we were able to identify 2012 If you will, don’t domains.

Subject area topics such as circle a liability basics, all appropriate inquiry basics. Definite terminology definitions within the standard.

All the elements of the standard, etc.

And those were ranked in terms of importance. And then we identified 15. From that larger group. 15 subject matter experts.

Again, a cross section of users producers. A public sector private sector. Of various levels of involvement.

In all those groups that I mentioned a few minutes ago. And, and now what we’re, we’re doing is, is using this same.

Pretty rigorous. Certification examination platform is, is developing, a question bank for the exam.

The workloads been distributed amongst the, 15 of us. And we’re we’ll be developing a bank of questions some 3 or 400 questions multiple choice questions.

And all those topics, those 12 domains, some of which I just mentioned. Domains and topics which.

Were identified as being significant as being relevant. As being important. For a bonified quality environmental professional practicing.

In the due diligence field. To know, to master. And so that’s where we are right now.

It’s it’s a really the development of a question bank is is like I said very very rigorous it’s it’s not as simple as Tim writing a couple of true or false questions and throwing them in in the question bank.

They’re generally multiple choice questions. Some are simply facts based. What what does this definition mean? Some are applications bad based.

Here is a simple scenario, a very simple fact pattern. How, how, how does it, how does the standard get applied?

And, and I think it, It, it also requires multiple, the question, the exam preparing process requires multiple people to review questions.

So that it’s not. You know, we don’t have inbreeding of question writers, if you will.

Yeah. Okay.

I never really said that term before. I’m not sure if that’s at any rate. So we were in the final stages of developing and reviewing those questions.

And the questions get reviewed by 2 other non-authors. There’ll be a final scrub of all the questions.

And then we’ll go and we should be later this spring ready to go to beta testing the exam.

And. Pretty simply, the the process, you know, for one that’s interested in in becoming certified.

Is really is really 3 steps. There’s an application that is made to ASTM. and SM will process the evaluation, verify that yes, indeed, the applicant has the requisite.

Education and or years of experience. There is, the, the second requirement is to attend an ASTM class.

And you know, we’ve been doing these phase one phase 2. Forest line standard transaction screen standard classes since the mid 1990.

And they’ll continue and ASTM will continue to offer classes in a variety of media platforms delivery platforms.

Of course, we always think that the live classes where we’re face to face in the same room are the best.

And there are 2 day. Phase one transaction stream force. Standard classes. In our 3 day, which adds the phase 2 standard.

We also have added several years to go virtual classes. The same phase one transactions between forest land.

And all of the above plus.

Phase 2 standard. There is, also an e-learning platform that is currently being revised and updated.

That’s kind of a blend between blend between the 2 and allow someone in a asynchronous manner.

To take in all the all the material. So, one of those classes, whether it’s live.

Virtual or you learn as is a prerequisite. And then, and then finally is, the written exam.

And the exam will be, as I said, multiple choice, 80 to 100 questions, I think.

And, the exams, if, if writing the exam questions is any indication.

Taking the exam itself will be highly instructive and educational. By that I mean, and at the risk of getting too far in the weeds and peeking behind the curtain, you know, not only do we write a question and have 4 or 5 options for answering the multiple choice but for each correct answer we the authors have to explain why that is the rep the correct answer and for those incorrect answers.

We explain why it’s incorrect So, so in that way, an exam taker. If they’re getting questions wrong, they will get that feedback about why that question was wrong and or why.

The right answer was right. So that’s part of the. That’s part of the rigor.

That’s part of the the robust exam process that I talked about. And that’s part of the reason it’s taken quite some time, a little bit more than some of us quite honestly.

Anticipated. I developed this, to develop this, this question bank in these exams.

But like I said, we should, we’re in the final stages now. I see that our ASTM Certification specialist is here as well as our one of the training directors.

Hi. And hopefully we’ll be at a point with finishing up the exam questions. Shortly and so sometime.

Later this spring will be beta testing on the exam. And then, and then ready for full rollout.

Yeah, sometime in the middle of the year. Tim, do you want to talk about any of the other?

Hello.

Yeah, I wanna, re emphasize the process here that we’ve gone through. It has been extremely rigorous in terms of.

Okay.

Okay.

How the training materials were created and that’s always been true. But, ESTM is, getting approved through a certification process, that, is non ASTM.

So we’ve got to meet all of their objectives to in terms of process in terms of process in terms of how this has been developed.

Paul mentioned all, all of our questions are peer reviewed. I mean, the reality is all of this is, peer reviewed multiple times over.

And, it has been a, A very, very, very rigorous process in terms of development so far.

So, I mean, the reasons for all of that is so that the tests are objective and that the test is fair.

The process is fair and then it’s right. so that’s the, That is the process and it has taken long.

I think we started working on working on this in principle, maybe a year and a half ago. Maybe a touch longer now.

But, I mean, there’s been multiple steps along the way and we’ve had to conform to.

The, certification organization’s requirements. Which for Paul and me is meant learning a whole new set of vocabulary.

Probably use the word domain before that’s, one of their words. So, it’s, been a very rigorous process and, one that the SMEs we have from all over the country, a very rigorous process and, one that the SMEs we have from all over the country are taken very seriously.

You know, I add 2 things. And thank you for reminding me of both of them.

Tim, first of all, you know, this is not Asm’s first for a into certification.

Right.

Like you said, there’s a there’s not only the education group, there’s a there’s a certification group that specializes and that’s all they do and there’s a number of other certification programs at the SM.

Currently manages and overseas and it’s developed so Hey, B, you know, in terms of what, you know, kind of globally, if you will, on what the exam looks like and.

And what are we testing? you know, it’s, it’s, it’s not the sort of exam, that I might.

It’s not the sort of questions I might ask someone that’s on my staff to see how good they are at answering, hey, that stain on the ground is that a, that stain on the ground.

Is that a de minimis condition or is that a recognized in the ground? Is that a de minimis condition or is that a recognized?

What would the regulator do? It’s it’s not so much that as it is. Do you have a solid understanding of the basics of circa, as it writes that liability, landowner liability.

Do you understand what all appropriate inquiries mean? And what are the requirements there in? And do you have a solid understanding of the standard?

The, the, purpose function. Strategy of the standard, the terminology, a lot, a lot of emphasis on terminology.

And, and of course, the process that’s outlined in both the 1527 and the 2247 standards.

Yeah, there will be some sort of, there will be a, recertification process. It’s, it’s not a one and done.

Once someone has an application that’s accepted completes a class and passes the exam. There will be some requirements for periodic recertification.

The details of which are are being finalized but but obviously because our Our collective body of knowledge is changing, revolving our standard changes.

It makes it makes sense if if for no other reason for those 2 reasons to have some recertification requirements.

Tim, what did we miss?

Yeah, let’s I mean we’ll talk about the rollout in terms of the timing. We still have a ways to go in developing and finalizing the certification program.

Yeah, you know the hope is that it’ll roll out the spring. It could bleed into the summer or late summer.

But we are. Are very active in, trying to. Get to the finish line as quickly as we can without rushing.

So the number one thing is we have to do it correctly.

I don’t know that it’s been asked yet. I’m sure it has. There’s some questions that’s been asked yet. I’m sure it has.

There’s some questions that have been rolling in, but yeah, they and Paul mentioned this earlier. The ASTM.

Certification piece would require attendance, in the classes before, one could take the test. I will note that there’s no legal requirement to, become certified.

We imagine that it’s possible that some users will prefer it and maybe eventually someday mandate it, but as of today like it’s it’s an EPA requirement.

The reason that we imagine that is because users have told us. That this is something that’s important to that, whether it’s.

You know, the different users that are their lenders or. Portfolio companies but government agencies state agencies that do a lot of phase one review have given us that feedback as well and those folks those users and those government regulators have been among the SMEs that have participated in this process as well.

So, That’s the first part of it. I mean, it’ll roll out.

There’s going to be some refresher requirement. We don’t know what that’s going to look like yet.

Honestly, we’re going to tackle that. Second once we get the program finalized and then figure out how what that looks like.

It’s not gonna be an annual requirement or standards at STM update every, 8 years.

So I can’t say it’s gonna be an eight-year. Requirement.

But we’ll look at the we’ll look at the rule. We’ll look at the definition and come up with

Something that makes sense for. Right, SDM from the administration side and also, from the EP community as well.

Yeah, that’s the timing to roll out. A lot of the stuff, I mean, cost is a great question.

We know the costs right now for the current ASTM programs. And we imagine the price for the certification.

I know ASD and, give us a number. Like, What was it called? $490 or something, $495.

To be certified. That we know what our current classes costs are, but, I mean, this is a marketplace too.

Yes.

So, costs are always subject to change. We can’t imagine it’s gonna be materially more expensive than a current, prices for ASDM trains now.

And as we get good at it as we get better at it, there may be alternative options as well.

Particularly on the recertification side. Where it’s more streamlined and less expensive.

But these things are all things that will work out. As we go. That’s our rollout.

How did I leave anything out?

No, I think, I, think that covers all of our points. I see there’s a lot of questions coming in.

Maybe, the best thing would be, Scott for you to, you know, lead us through some of the, some of the QA.

Yeah, yeah, there’s a lot of questions here. So let’s get started. I tell you.

I’ll just ask so, Tim or Paul, which one, but. Why would somebody take the exam in the class and then later on, the 5 years is up or whatever, as, and decides, why should somebody get recertified.

Let me.

Yeah, that’s a good question. The reality, I guess, from a standards. Creation perspective is that the ACM standards gonna be updated again it has to be So whatever new development comes down.

In the future I can’t even pretend to think about what those might be. At this point.

Every, I mean, I’ve been a part of this, process now.

3 times. Revising the standard and every time something new comes up that I never would have fathomed.

So, there’s gonna be a new development. There’s gonna be a new you know, potentially into PFAS, for example, or maybe it is P fast again as we learned more about it.

But there’s going to be more that, that needs to be. Specific in the standard.

I don’t think the standard the last 2 iterations has changed materially. I think it’s gotten more specific.

Okay.

Which is good. So But as we get more specific and standard, you know, we need to make sure that the.

Marketplace is also. Getting more specific and how they address it.

Yeah, I think you’re right. I mean, it’s, are there changes in rules or changes in laws or statutes?

Or how does the standard change and how is our practice evolving. And, and for that, for that reason, I mean, any, any of us, if we take a look back.

At how we were doing work 5 years, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. I don’t think anybody would argue that that there had been changes.

And, and there’s the, I think. My personal opinion is that the certification program.

Is is only as good as it is current. And that it represents today’s. You know, all appropriate in course today’s standard today’s practice today’s industry.

You know, someone recently wrote an article about how does, how my climate issues play into due diligence.

You know, certainly that might might be something that that that comes in over the next, over the next years, the next decade.

All the emerging contaminants. Other new things that we learn in terms of our practice certainly have to be reflected in our our updated standards and our updated certification process.

Hey, just a reminder, if you please enter your questions in the QA section of the platform rather than the chat section.

Okay, so. You know, why is ASTM taken on this endeavor?

To certify UPs.

Yeah, I mean, I think, something I mentioned before it is. Number one, STM has a certification program, right?

Like we’ve got the organization has staff and that’s something that ASTM offers and does.

Number 2, I mean, consistently. In the in the phase one standard development process. Feedback, particularly from the users is that the the marketplace isn’t consistent in the product that it.

It’s, it provides. So, you know, the certification process is another. I mean, we’ve gone through a couple of iterations of the standard where we’ve tried to clarify language.

In the hopes that it would lead to more standardized. More consistent product in the market. But, And this is yet another attempt at that.

Yeah.

I mean Those are the 2 big reasons. That are leaving out.

Yeah, and I just escaped.

Yeah.

Yeah. I’ll chime in when it pops back in my.

Yeah. That’s good.

Hmm. Good. Let’s go on to, DP. So.

The question in one of the questions was, is ASTM going to redefine what a environmental professional is?

And so, want to have you guys answer that but then Go back to AI and how this all relates to.

The EP certification and ASDM would be great.

Yeah. So. A seems not redefining or environmental professional meetings. There’s a definition that’s in the rules.

If you do a phase one. Everyone who does one has to certify that they are in fact an EP, as part of the report.

That’s a necessary component of performing 1527. It’s a necessary component of performing. We’re not changing any of that.

What we’re doing instead is verifying it. I mean, that’s the certification process is to verify that.

Okay.

You know, you have a third party saying yes, this person is. A certified environmental professional.

Under 40 CFR part 3 12. I mean that’s really what the certification process is.

The Did I answer the first part of that question fully? Thanks, Scott.

Yeah, I think so, yeah. Yeah.

Paul, anything to add on that? The second part of this is a little different. So before I jump into that second part.

No, but I would add just before I forget again, it back to why ASM.

Yeah. Yeah.

As Tim said early on. You know, there there there is loud and and continuous and consistent on feedback from the user community.

And interest in, yeah. In raising the bar. Several attempts have been made to do that through changes in the standard.

But some other way says the user community to be able to distinguish. An EP from an EP from an EP, because we know they’re not all created equal.

And we’ve heard very consistently. And very clearly from EPA. You know, they have the definition of environmental professional that comes out of all appropriate inquiry in the Brownfields law bill.

But ASK will not and is not interested in getting into the certification business. That’s not something that they’re at all.

Yes.

New, you mean EPA, you said it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I mean the second part of what I was gonna say is yes, ASTM is offering.

To the market. A third party. Verification that people are actually EPs and they, know what the standard is.

It’s not required. It’s not required under AI. As far as we, I mean, maybe someday it will be required.

I’m, I can’t pretend to read the. Future maybe effectively. I mean, maybe some users will mandate it, but.

We’re responding to a need that’s been expressed to the organization. In order to meet a need in the marketplace.

But we’re not changing the rules. And we’re not, redefining.

So that’s the, the, Full answer to your question, Scott.

Okay, and then the AI make reference. I think I heard one of you talk about this the other day reference that.

Ep has to stay current.

Okay.

S.

That is, that is in the role that’s in 40 CFR part 3 12.

Under environmental professional if you’re looking at it, it’s a paragraph 3. I’ve got it in front of me.

So yeah, it is. Definitely something that’s mandated in the rule as it exists right now.

Yeah. That’s move on. Will current EPs be grandfather? Or will they need to take the exam, so forth, class.

Anybody that wishes to be certified has to submit the application, take class and pass the exam. What we’re talking about are certified EPs, certified by STM.

Certified by a bonified certification organization. There there can be there will be no doubt. Many environmental professionals practicing continuing to practice through it without certification.

But there is there won’t be a grandfathering because As I think we said, you know, we want to make sure that it reflects current practice.

Current good commercial and customer practice, current requirements of the standard. So in that regard, there won’t be a grandfather.

So the thought for VPs is to. Whether it’s duration time they have to recertify re-up because to keep current.

Is that the thought of this?

Yeah, exactly.

Okay.

Yeah, I, yeah, I think it’s, I mean, it’s gonna be up to every, Ep to figure out what’s best for them.

Like I said before, there’s nothing. Mandating this in any of the laws or rules. So.

If it’s if it’s good business You know, I’s offering that service.

And it’s rigorous and well done and you know maybe I can I can imagine and Paul and I talked about this once ago.

I mean, we can imagine. Some shops that, maybe they’ve got, experienced.

EPs that, decide that they don’t need the certification, but they want to mandate it for their newer ones, the people that are coming up.

I mean, there’s any number of different,

Permutations on how this all works out in the marketplace.

Okay. So, go ahead.

You know, I’d also add just regarding, grandfathering, to be clear.

One has to take an exam. If, if a person has attended a, a phase one of the STM classes, again, whether it’s live, a virtual or an e-learning class in the period since.

The 21 version of the standard came out. That standard, I mean, that class qualifies.

So it’s, you know, It’s him’s not looking to to require everyone that’s taken a class in the list in the last 3 years to have to take another class.

Okay. Have you guys already identified beta testers and Also, are you willing to take on, new volunteers to be a tester?

Okay.

The yes, we have our beta test group ready. I don’t know. I’m wanted to check with ASDM to see what the, what the.

Regulations are in terms of the standards regulations are. In terms of adding beta testers. I don’t know the answer to that.

Yes.

But I think if there are people that are interested, by all means, maybe, Scott, if you’re the person that’s gathering info from this group, if there are those that are interested in.

Being a beta tester you know Cost throw your throw your names to Scott

Well, you can if you Alright, is there another place you want those to go or?

Probably, but I don’t know what it is at this point, so you’re the convenient.

Okay. That’s fine. Yeah, we’ll find out where it is and I’ll pass it on.

Yeah, Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, we’ll go the next. A lot of these questions are referring to if you, just wanna clarify if you’ve taken a AST and phase one.

Class. Is there a duration of time? I think, Tim, you mentioned 3.

3 years maybe or. Maybe that’s not.

Yeah, Oh, I didn’t mention I think Paul did. I don’t know if, I don’t know if that details final, is it?

In terms of like

Yeah.

No, my example was today if the certification program is ready today. And you took a class in, 2021.

After the latest test. Yeah.

After the latest revision of the standard came out. It’s I’m only talking about recent trainings, not not recertification.

Got it.

Yeah, cause a lot of questions are definitely about that.

Okay.

So how will the, well, this is. How will the A/C MEP certification of course be different?

From the Well, let me go on to another month. In sort of practice.

Yeah, it’s not it’s not a special class. It’s not a different class on aimed at preparing you one for the exam. It’s not an ECP certification class.

The classes will continue to be. 8 all appropriate inquiries and the ASTM phase one standards that the classes will will largely remain unchanged.

Yeah, are you guys familiar the EBA, EBA is doing certification class and one of the question relates to this is how is this class different from The EBA class and I think it’s a different audience.

Yeah, so we have members. In her SME group that are, members of EBA, there’s a lot of crossover in these 2.

Communities specifically, EBA, the audience primarily is, users primarily and the EP certification obviously if you’re a user you’re not an EP.

You’re not doing the test. So I think I think that’s the answer but I’d have to check with.

Some of our EDA folks to see, to see if there’s something different about their certification.

Yeah, I think it’s so different from I understand it’s, you know, definitely more lender focus or dealing with like you said the user aspect of it.

And yeah. A lot of people say, yeah, depending on who you’re doing work for, you know, maybe both certifications, I’m not sure.

Okay. What steps have been taken assured that the exam questions are not regionally biased?

Towards specific consulting firms. Approach to these ones, etc.

Hmm.

I’m laughing because. The question writing. Process is number one, I’ve said it’s rigorous.

But we have,

We have steadfastly held to the standard itself. So there’s not, you know, regional difference.

We’re testing to the standard we’re testing to the applications from the standard the folks that are on the review committee are from all over the country.

And if somebody slid something regional through, it would be immediately gained by the 2 or 3 people that are reviewing that question.

Okay.

And kicked out. So, I’m not saying it’s impossible. I think it’s very unlikely that there’s going to be any kind of regional bias.

At all. Yeah.

So yeah, and so I’m represent you represent the question is gonna be strongly pointed toward the standard.

Any other section of the, you know, what about site inspections, site visits? Is it gonna cover stuff like that?

Well, to the extent there are requirements in the standard on What are the conditions? Uses features and activities that we look at.

Okay.

What do we have to look at and where do we not have to look at those sorts of questions but it’s it’s not going to be you know here here’s a picture what do you see sort of exam It’s it’s an exam of one’s knowledge of the standard and how the standard is applied.

Oh.

Yeah, we do have questions. We do a lot of questions that are like nibbling at the edge of what is a phase one versus other environmental issues.

Only because that’s in the standard that section 13 your, but also in section one and section 4 of the standard when we’re talking about the.

Significance of it and the use of the standard. I mean there’s it’s really important that EPs know why they’re different phase one and not some other process.

And what the outputs are in the phase line. As opposed to, you know, say a wetland delineation, completely not phase one, right?

So, You know, there’s different kinds of site assessment tools and 1527 is one of them.

It is testing, for a very specific and knowing knowing that’s important for any people so that they can provide the product that the you know the client and the marketplace is expecting.

If you have the the required educational experience and take the E learning course. Well, you need 5 years of experience prior to taking the exam.

Say that first part again.

Well, if they. Well, so many need the 5 years. Of experience to take the exam.

Say they have the educational requirement. They meet that requirement, but they don’t have the experience requirement.

Will they need to have the experience requirement? Before they can take the exam or can they go ahead and take the exam without it?

That’s a good question. I know that the certification is like we talk about the exams as the certification.

It’s part of the certification, right? The definition of EP includes all these other things. That one would have to satisfy in order to be certified as an.

The exam really gets to. Whether a person has the specific education training and experience. Necessary to exercise professional judgment.

With respect to you know releases or threat releases at a property or whether they’re remaining current in the field of.

Environmental due diligence, right? So that’s all that the test is testing.

Everything else is. It’ll be on the application. And I know there’s, depending on your degree, there’s different experience levels that you need.

Yes.

So I don’t know if 5. Is the only one out there. And I think there’s a couple where it’s 3.

So I mean, yeah, it would it would very much be. Application specific.

Who will be, grading the exams?

It’s computer system. It’s a, it’s a online. Thing so the grades will all be done automatically.

There’s not there’s not an essay, so there’s not a.

Subjective grading. Element to it.

Yeah.

Yeah, there’ll be a bank of 3 or 400 questions. And then when someone since for the exam, the, the, exam package will, generate an exam by.

Thank you.

Pulling out the right number of questions and you know so in that way no 2 exams are our, our alike in, the, the system then.

Evaluates writing wrong answers based on, the review that’s been done by. This group of authors and reviewers.

Alright, this one is kinda for ASTM, but you guys may chime in if you know, but, with the rollout, will that be more in person classes?

In 2024.

Great question. I don’t know the answer to that. Typically our in person. Classes have been.

The number and the size of have met whatever demand is out there. So I guess is if there’s more demand for in person, then there’ll be more in person classes.

Yeah, well, they can get prepared for that. I’m sure they’ll be able to.

Yeah.

Answer that but they already have some in person classes I think scheduled for this year. So I’d definitely encourage anybody attention to reach out or go to the ASTM website because they are posted up there.

And if they definitely have a need, they’ll, you know, we’ll add more classes to it.

My understanding is they will also, if a company has, you know, several people they want to.

Take the class, they’ll work with the individual companies and do a private class like that. So definitely reach out to ASDM.

I know they have all staff on that training.

Okay. So again, a lot of questions about the. Requirements, so forth like that.

And, I think we covered a lot of that for now. I know it’s still the process of working things out.

Some people are referring to if they have 25 years of experience, they have to take it obviously.

You know, the answer is yes on that, but. I know you guys are still working on.

It was EVA.

Okay, considering. So concerned A is DM standard. A reference and circle, how does the new requirement apply for individuals covered under legacy clause of the U.

Constitution who engaged prior to adoption of certification.

I’m not sure about that one.

Got a lot of questions about private so just to kinda If somebody’s taking a recent ASTM course.

And I know we haven’t just really identified the timeline, but if it’s recent enough, I’m assume that’ll apply, allow them to take the exam.

This is phase one base 2 course.

Cause there seems to be a lot of Yeah.

That’s my, that’s my, yeah, that’s my belief anyway. And I don’t know now, you know, what is recent enough?

I don’t have to answer that. But yeah.

Yeah. Okay, will it be a study guide or manual provided by ASTM to provide? To prepare for the exam.

I think the standard.

Think if we look at other certification that STM administers where there’s a program guide in guidance for the applicants.

There will be some information whether whether it goes to the extent of a study guide like. You might see for the PE license or for the.

Your bar, license, I. I don’t know.

The question was does ASDM provide the standards? 1527, 2247 for free.

That’s right.

My understanding comes free if you take the class. It comes with it’s part of the material. I confirm that.

Yeah, regardless of whether it’s a lot of face to face, brick and mortar classes we sometimes refer to.

For virtual class. Or a, a learning class. You get all the standards, copies of all the standards that are discussed in the class.

Yeah, just to clarify, says for the, rollout schedule, middle of the year, do you mean 2024?

Yes.

That’s the intent. Yeah.

But. Okay.

Right, right.

Yeah.

That’s a good EP asking that sort of clarifying question. Middle of the year, what year? That’s good.

I like it.

That’s it’s

So if I already have the ASTM certification, is it required to take the course and exam again later?

Yeah, that’s our recertification thing. We’re gonna tackle that issue after we get through here.

I would, I would think.

You know, no promises or anything like. There would be a more streamlined version of both the class and the test for recertifications.

Only because you know at that point you’ve already proven. That you’re, you know, certified.

The only question is. You know whether you kept up with the changes the ASTM standard is gonna change every 8 years so Yeah, keeping up with those changes is an important part.

And as I mentioned earlier, it’s already in the rule. The EP rule, the definition.

Okay.

Yeah, lot of the questions relate to how recently, about duration of time between classes and the exam.

So I guess, you know, be prepared for that. Yeah.

Scott, if I can follow up on 3 things. First I saw, you know, there’s stuff in the chat.

There’s the Q&A box. There’s A couple of comments that we made about the EBA and their.

Their class in their certificate program. It’s not a certification program and it’s aimed at risk management.

A different focus than this program, which is a Do diligence, all appropriate inquiry, AST and phase one.

Certification, program. Secondly, the, lot of talk about costs and, costs, and, and costs, particularly the cost for, for training.

Yeah, and Scott or Tim, you, you had mentioned that SM does, offer.

The ability to come in house and do do training with with small focus small groups with your whether it’s with your organization, your your company or your professional organization.

So they’re there there are certainly I think. Opportunities to be a little bit more. Economical, or efficient, I should say.

The other thing is, and you know, we haven’t talked about it, but I saw there a lot a lot of comments about experience and examination.

And, why would someone that has a lot of years of experience need to get a certification or why does someone with a lot of years of experience need need to take a class.

Well, I guess.

The the the and easy answer is. That years of experience. Doesn’t always equate to knowing the standard, knowing the rule and knowing the practice.

Yeah.

And so that’s that’s what the certification program is meant to do. For one of the things I think that the certification is meant to do.

Cool.

And again, remember as to Tim said right at the beginning. there’s, A lot of feedback, loud voices and a lot of encouragement from the user community.

For doing for, for having this, this sort of certification program. Yeah.

What kind of go into that a little more because it’s here from my understanding it’s a user group are really pushing for better reports.

Is that right? Is that’s what I’ve heard? Is that?

It’s consistently the feedback and it’s I mean the user group but it’s also government regulators who review phase ones.

Yeah, it’s consistently, I mean, for since 2013.

Yeah, I mean, yeah. That’s the feedback we get. I now I know there’s users out there that are.

You know, they don’t care and they’re pushing for, you know, just lower cost at all at all costs.

But, you know, at least the users who do care, like they want, they want better products.

So

Yeah.

And remember, I mean, this is all of this is voluntary. You know, the all appropriate inquiries rule doesn’t say one has to be a certified in environmental professional or simply that one has to meet these.

On these criteria. As listed, this is purely voluntary for producers. It’s it’s it’s it’s value will be purely driven by the users.

Who may or may not use it as a way to differentiate to seemingly Qualified. environmental professionals.

The, the last little bit when we have time here, I just, I do want to reiterate that, that this is still a program that is under development.

So, and we, got over 220 questions here. So we obviously we didn’t answer everybody’s question, but.

The sometimes we don’t have the answer because we just don’t have the answer yet.

When we do, we’ll be rolling it out and it’ll be something more official.

But, in terms of coming here today and presenting where we are. That’s just it.

We’re presenting where we are and the current status of things is. And that, that we’re, progressing.

So to the extent that, That we didn’t answer your question or couldn’t answer your question.

Apologies for that. But, I mean, this is still very much a, a program that’s under development.

Yeah. And you know, the purpose here is just to get the word out that people know that As team is working on this.

And just, you know. If they want more information, they can definitely reach out to ASDM and to go get it.

Yeah, and in the feedback either through the chat or through the. through the QA is, it’s really valuable for, to the whole group that’s, that’s working on this.

Yeah.

So thanks for everyone that’s providing comments and questions. Thank you. I think the process will be stronger.

And the program better for your, for your thoughtful, thoughtful comments and questions.

Yeah. No, I appreciate it. And yeah, like I said, I appreciate all the questions that are coming in.

This definitely helpful lot of things to think about. We do appreciate your time in this and so on that we’re gonna go ahead and wrap it up.

Yes.

It’s that time so unfortunately we don’t have any more time. And there were a lot of questions, so we were not able to get through them all, but all that all those questions in the comments and chat are very helpful so thank you very much.

More about ASTM, E, 1527 updates including our latest blog or environmental due diligence please visit.

[email protected]. Which contains curated articles, podcasts, and past webinars on the topic.

Please note this webinar has been recorded and will be posted on the Air’s website next few days. So on behalf of ERIS in our audience, I would like to give a big thank you to Paul and Tim for sharing your knowledge and experience with us today.

And to our audience, we want to thank you. For your attention during this past hour. Please enjoy the rest of your day.

Take care.

Thanks everybody. Thanks, Scott.

Yep, take care. Bye.

See guys, thanks.